The Rebel

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Posts by The Rebel

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  44

  Is there evidence for networks of abuse?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i tend to avoid the subject because it's too depressing, so i've probably missed lots of discussion about this issue.

  but i read a comment on youtube yesterday that shocked me and made me wonder.

  the person claimed that many years ago abusers in society generally identified jws as a safe haven for abusers and joined en masse order to exploit the situation.

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  The Rebel

  Slimboyfat O.P." Is there evidence for networks of abuse?

  The Rebel (A) when I was leaving the W.T, I mentiond with supportive evidence to a " friend" elder child molestation problems in the organisation, his defensive and emotional reply " would I be in an organisation like that? My reply was " you are"

  What I learnt from that conversation was how easy it was for this " friend" elder to deny all the evidence I mentiond. So whilst I found your O.P sensational and not supported by evidence, the question is worth being asked.

  Personally I believe any organisation that is so secret and un-cooperative with its policies on child abuse as the Watchtower could be a prime target for such networks to exist. This is why I am glad the figures on child molesters in the organisation have been revealed and are no longer secret. I am also sure your question " Is there evidence of networks of abuse" is a question those conducting royal commission enquirers , and police forces who investigate child molestation in the W.T organisation are also concerned about.

  The Rebel.
• 
  27

  "Crises of Conscience"

  by Olivia Wilde in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i just finished reading chapters 11-12 of raymond franz, crises of conscience & i must admit, i am pretty strong person, however the way ed dunlap & ray franz were treated left me crying, i had tears rolling done my eyes driving home from work on friday... & how ed was kicked out by wt, left me feel soo disgusted & outraged.... it was very obvious he needed to stay at bethel because of his age & medical conditions but i admired he didn't compromise his conscious, it's sickening to me how cold & callous these men can treat a christian after all his service.... & of course ray franz situation was no exception either, the witch hunt they did to get him out was, well, there's just isnt enough adjectives to describe their disgusting motives against him... he was 59 yrs old trying to make a honest living with his wife & for them to go after him was devious & demon like.... i'm soo grateful i came across this book & i wished i had much much sooner.... i know god will reward both ed dunlap & franz plus many many more who have been unjustly & unchristian like treated during that time & this time, sooo sickening.....i still feel very much upset & emotional over the whole thing .... i never met any of them & then yet i feel deep christian love for them......

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  The Rebel

  Olivia Wilde: O.P " Crises of conscience"

  Nathen Nat ass " Was it because you had tears in your eyes that you got the title of the book wrong?

  The Rebel, (A) The meaning of the name Olivia is piece. It doesn't matter how you spell peace, it's something inside you and I hope you find it Olivia.

  The Rebel.

  p.s Nathan Natas, The " In Search of Crispy Chicken" comment made me laugh.
• 
  26

  Why don't people believe Facts?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have enjoyed some fascinating debates on the forum.

  i have found it interesting when" facts" have been presented to support a viewpoint, yet the " facts" have then been rejected.. what does this mean?.

  well the " truth" is as a dub, i was often presented with " facts" that the organisation was wrong, yet as this information challenged my belief system i convinced myself the " facts" were either completely wrong or misinterpreted, .

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  The Rebel

  Interesting 2nd post DJS.

  But rather than go back to the first 85,000 years of human existence,I would like to answer why I believe the modern day witness does not accept facts.

  My answer is that the modern day witness believes facts come from people who are very good at making speeches, and always wear a tie. Of course the presented " facts" have to then come from Watchtower publications or the Kingdom Hall, and further more the people that proclaim these "facts" need to speak nicely to us, and skake our hands whilst we lick there boots or should I say backside,ect,ect....

  Anyway I have learnt we do not need to be exstemly intelligent to understand a fact. In fact on this broad in my opinion facts are usually presented by posters in one sentence rather than many long sentences that confuse, and are often as gibberish as listening to a Gibbon.

  The Rebel.

  p.s. Thanks for all the replys which I enjoyed reading.
• 
  64

  "Apostates " how honest are we?

  by closed in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as i mentioned in another post i used to serve as an elder for 2 decades.

  i was involved in a number of jc.

  some i dealt with are good friends now.

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  The Rebel

  Closed:- O.P "Apostates" How honest are we?"

  The Rebel: (A) If an " apostate" is guilty of making dishonest and ingenious revelations about the W.T, the comments whilst maybe sensational and fictitious are not consigned to the utmost secrecy of J.C hearings.

  The Rebel.
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  15

  Fisticuffs Erupts Between Mormons and JWs at Montreal Airport... WTF?

  by Room 215 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  apologies if someone else has posted this before: .

  http://vaticanenquirer.com/canadas-mormons-and-jehovahs-witnesses-brawl-trying-to-get-to-refugees-first/.

  sorry, meant to say "fighting erupts" ... my bad.

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  The Rebel

  This article was sourced from the " VaticanEnquier"

  VaticanEnquier : - "The Obama administration is cracking down on the food industry forcing it to eliminate fat in foods over the next few months"

  VaticanEnquier :- " Scientific study revels that homosexuality is Extremely Contagious"

  So with respect to the O.P,s ".....WTF?" I say don't belief all the " WTF" you read.

  The Rebel.
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  26

  Why don't people believe Facts?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have enjoyed some fascinating debates on the forum.

  i have found it interesting when" facts" have been presented to support a viewpoint, yet the " facts" have then been rejected.. what does this mean?.

  well the " truth" is as a dub, i was often presented with " facts" that the organisation was wrong, yet as this information challenged my belief system i convinced myself the " facts" were either completely wrong or misinterpreted, .

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  The Rebel

  DJS Thanks for the post, which I look forward to reading tonight when I have more time.

  Slimboyfat " There are no facts only interpretations. That's why I suggested to Paul Grundy years ago he should change his site from jwfacts to jwinterpretations."

  The Rebel, Slim is it not a fact that Paul Grundy did not change his site from jwfacts to jwinterpretations?

  Anyway according to the watchtower " The indisputable facts, show that the " time of the end" begang in 1799. ( W.T, March 1 1922) In fact the proof is quite clear and convincing that the second presence of our Lord dates from 1874" ( W.T Feb 15 1927)

  Well in my opinion the " indisputable facts " are that the W.T doesnt know what a fact is. Does anybody here dispute the fact that the W.T society has a history of failed date setting and discarded doctrine?

  If you don't agree that's a " fact" please clarify why?

  The Rebel.
• 
  26

  Why don't people believe Facts?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have enjoyed some fascinating debates on the forum.

  i have found it interesting when" facts" have been presented to support a viewpoint, yet the " facts" have then been rejected.. what does this mean?.

  well the " truth" is as a dub, i was often presented with " facts" that the organisation was wrong, yet as this information challenged my belief system i convinced myself the " facts" were either completely wrong or misinterpreted, .

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  The Rebel

  I have enjoyed some fascinating debates on the forum. I have found it interesting when" FACTS" have been presented to support a viewpoint, yet the " FACTS" have then been rejected.

  What does this mean?

  Well the " TRUTH" is as a dub, I was often presented with " FACTS" that the organisation was wrong, yet as this information challenged my belief system I convinced myself the " FACTS" were either completely wrong or misinterpreted,

  This is why I remained in " The Truth" :-Despite facts that my viewpoint was completely wrong?

  So because I felt threatened of the consequences to my belief system being wrong,regardless of how wrong I was I was never going to readjust my thinking and accept this new information despite it being true and the evidence presented with facts.

  This is :-

  A) Why I realise rather than facts driving my beliefs it has often been my belief system which has dictated the facts I choose to accept.

  B) And why I have tried when presented with contrary information to my be belief system, to accept my current thinking may be uninformed and that it is ok to change my mind.

  So in conclusion :

  a) Facts can be misinterpreted or take information out of context to support an argument.

  b) When facts are presented in an honest and irrefutable way, my dub past allows me to empathise with the resistance some on this board have in accepting those facts.

  Anyway any suggestions on how best to avoid unhealthy debates when people don't believe the facts.

  The Rebel.
• 
  15

  At the doors.

  by Sabin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what were some of the derogatory things you heard or said about house holders?

  .

  i was taught that if they didn't answer the door & you knew they were in it was always that they had a guilty conscience..

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  The Rebel

  I always found that householders in the more affluent areas received a lot of deogatory comments for their materalistic success. I put this down to jealously. The irony was that these were the very houses we would have liked to live in after armageddon :-)

  The Rebel.
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  41

  Who is your favourite thinker?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  having recently read orwells 1984, i was impressed with how he understood that both politicians and people abuse language.

  this further confirmed to me how the w.t had deceived me by using words to distort reality.

  the book 1984, also contains many other great thoughts of george orwell.. of course there have been many other great thinkers, buddah, darwin, freud, einstein and marx come to mind.

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  The Rebel

  Muddy Walters " apologies if some of these people may not be considerd " great thinkers" On the contrary i think Bill Waterson and Charles Schultz are excellent suggestions. If you must apologise I would suggest it's not for including " Muddy Walters" on your list.

  So yes I think my heroes and artists like Picasso and entertainers like Buster Keaton can deservedly belong on the list of great thinkers.

  The Rebel.
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  41

  Who is your favourite thinker?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  having recently read orwells 1984, i was impressed with how he understood that both politicians and people abuse language.

  this further confirmed to me how the w.t had deceived me by using words to distort reality.

  the book 1984, also contains many other great thoughts of george orwell.. of course there have been many other great thinkers, buddah, darwin, freud, einstein and marx come to mind.

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  The Rebel

  Interesting thoughts and suggestions. I guess in conclusion great origional thinkers are few and far between, but each individual can strive to become a better critical thinker.

  " Of one thing we can be sure: The quality of our life will be determined by the quality of our thinking" Edward De Bono.

  The Rebel.